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MAKING CONTACT Transcript: #12-00 Immigration and Racism in North America Phillip Babich: This week on Making Contact.... Sunera Thobani: On the streets of Vancouver you can buy a t-shirt that's made by somebody in China for $3.00, but when a person in China who actually made that t-shirt wants to come and live here, on the basis of equality with us, we get all offended and say they want to break our laws... Catherine Tactaquin: Across the country we're now finding new racial issues that are rising. Now we have Southeast Asians in Georgia, Haitians in Florida, Mexicans in South Carolina, and it's creating a new racial discussion, new racial tensions. Phillip Babich: In Canada and the United States, immigration is a crucial public policy issue. At times, discussions about the issue are racially charged. On this program, we discuss immigration and racism in North America. I'm Phillip Babich -- your host this week on Making Contact -- an international radio program seeking to create connections between people, vital ideas and important information. To discuss immigration and racism in North America, Making Contact and the World Association of Community Radio Broadcasters, based in Montreal, Quebec, assembled a panel of immigrant rights advocates. They are: Janet Dench, executive director of the Canadian Council for Refugees, based in Montreal; Sunera Thobani, professor of Women's Studies at Simon Frazer University in Vancouver, British Columbia; and Catherine Tactaquin, director of the National Network for Immigrant and Refugee Rights, a U.S.-based organization. Janet Dench begins by describing who is immigrating to Canada these days. Janet Dench: Well, the profile of immigrants to Canada has changed a lot in the last few years. There's a much greater equality in terms of the countries of origin from around the world, where we used to have a heavy concentration from Europe. Now you see many more coming from Asia, Latin America, Africa. But the actual numbers that can come to Canada is a lot defined by the resources, the visa post resources that exist, and the numbers of visa officers processing applications from Africa, for example, is much smaller than from Europe, which again impacts on who gets in. Phillip Babich: And Sunera, what's the picture from your standpoint in Vancouver? Sunera Thobani: Well, from my standpoint we see a lot of migration particularly from Asia, and I think that's one of the highest regions from which immigrants are coming into Canada. And now we're seeing migrants as well. I think the big picture for me is that the immigration policy in Canada has always been tied to nation-building. And the nation in Canada is defined primarily as English and French, and so we have had immigration policies which have been really skewed in favor of those groups, and really in defining people from the third world, particularly non-white people, as outsiders to this nation. And so, when the economy has needed labor, when the needs of the economy had to be met, immigration policy has allowed in people from the Third World, but on very unequal conditions. And even when we are in the country we continue to be defined as outsiders to the nation. And I think that this particular phase we're living in, the global restructuring of the economy, we're seeing the polarization between the First World and the Third World increasing very greatly, and so migration from the Third World is escalating. It is really growing very rapidly, and the Canadian Government is basically responding to it by basically introducing a more restrictive immigration policy. Phillip Babich: And we'll be getting deeper into those issues. But first, Catherine, won't you give our listeners a sense of who's immigrating to the United States these days. Catherine Tactaquin: Well, similar to Canada, I think we're seeing certainly a very diverse population of people from many, many countries coming to the United States for various reasons. And in many ways, the pattern is holding steady as it has over the last thirty years. We certainly have the largest migrating group being from Mexico, as well as from the Philippines, from China, all parts of Asia, Latin America...but more and more we're seeing immigrants from Eastern Europe, from other parts of Europe, and from Africa. And so we're seeing growing communities of populations that over the last thirty years are settling, becoming more entrenched in communities, and are also becoming bases for new immigrants through family re-unification, and etc. So it's a much more diverse population and probably about 85% would be considered migrants of color, so it is very much changing the face of the United States and of course, that's been a very controversial issue, is kind of the change in racial demographics that immigration is having on the country. Phillip Babich: Janet, you mentioned earlier the issue of the ability for perhaps African immigrants to acquire visas. Janet Dench: Well, you can look at who can get in by legal channels from the point of view of countries of origins or ethnic origins also socioeconomic classes. For people from Europe, for the wealthy and the educated from most parts of the world, there are ways to travel around the round and live pretty much wherever you want to live. For other people the barriers are up and the barriers are getting higher and higher. That's what you'd see in Europe, for example. Where there is no openness, or very little openness to people outside the European Union to enter that part of the world. And so, people who are desperate or are trying to make their lives, improve their lives, take whatever measures they can. When you compare it with Canadian immigrations, apart from the bias, a very strong bias, of course, towards European immigrants early in the Twentieth Century, you also saw an openness to people who would be workers, people who didn't necessary have particular kinds of skills. Whereas today's immigration in focused on people with certain levels of education and professional experience. And for others, who are the disenfranchised of the world, the doors are pretty much closed. Phillip Babich: Sunera, in your part of Canada, there's been an ongoing issue involving Chinese immigrants. And there's been a lot of coverage in the Canadian press about Chinese immigrants and human smuggling operations. I believe it was last summer and fall, Canadian immigration officials intercepted boats off the British Colombia coast carrying Chinese immigrants. I wonder if you can describe the situation concerning Chinese immigrants arriving illegally by boat, and tell us what your reaction is to the media coverage of the situation. Sunera Thobani: Well, I think both issues are tied together. The media coverage has really been extremely sensationalized, you know, newspaper headlines saying: "Enough already, go back home." And really focusing on the smugglers and the group of migrants as illegal and wanting you to break the laws and the rules. So it's been a very sensationalized media coverage, and it has really provoked a lot of racism against this particular group of migrants from China. But also largely against the Chinese-Canadian community, and also people of color in BC. So it's been a very racist, a very racialized public response to this. I think it's really important to look at the government's responsibility actually for this increasing migration. So in Canada, for example, the Canadian government at an international level promotes free trade, wants trade liberalization, wants the free movement of capital and goods across borders, but at the same time wants to restrict people from migrating. And I think these free-trade policies are creating a lot of upheaval all over the world. We're seen environments being destroyed as a result of these free-trade corporate policies, which hold corporations unaccountable. And I think that really escalates migration, and people become desperate enough to travel under any conditions whatsoever. So I think there's a lot of hypocrisy around how these migrants are being treated right now. Phillip Babich: That's the voice of Sunera Thobani. She's joining us from Vancouver. Also with us is Janet Dench. She's joining us from Montreal. And in the studio with us here is Catherine Tactaquin. Catherine, picking up on some of the points and themes that Sunera was touching on, I want to ask you this, a study by the University of Houston found that new U.S. border control strategies are causing 300 immigrant deaths per year at the U.S.-Mexico border. And these strategies include specially outfitted military units, infra-red detection systems, and other sophisticate technologies. And at the same time, many industries are dependent on cheap labor provided by undocumented Mexican immigrants, and the Immigration and Naturalization Service, the INS, the U.S. agency that enforces immigration policy, routinely looks the other way when employers are known to hire undocumented immigrants. And I'm wondering, Catherine Tactaquin, what does this say about U.S. immigration policy? Catherine Tactaquin: Well there certainly is schizophrenia within U.S. policy generally and how it address migration, so on the one hand, we have increased the enforcement budget of the Immigration and Naturalization Service over 200% over the last five years. And every session Congress considers new increases in enforcement. And yet this last year the INS admitted that in fact these kinds of enforcement measures, immigration raids at, workplaces, or neighborhoods and so forth, really aren't very effective in addressing their stated intention of keeping out undocumented. And there's a great concern that these enforcement measures have also resulted in human rights abuses, labor abuses, and in fact enforcement, the criminalization, for example, of employers who hire undocumented. That's been turned around and has contributed to the criminalization of those workers without legal immigration documents...we prefer to call them undocumented rather than illegal. Phillip Babich: Janet Dench, there have at lest been some calls for changes in Canadian immigration policy. I wonder if you can pick up on some of these themes. What's kind of the underlying issues here regarding immigration policy and economics, and why people migrate? Janet Dench: There's discussion been going on in Canada for several years about changing the immigration act, and they're looking at a whole range of different changes. We don't yet know what the government is going to propose. But I'd like to focus on one aspect of what we hear is coming, and that is how it tends to be very responsive to whatever is the latest event that has captured the public's attention. And of course, the event of last summer that Sunera was talking about, the boats that had arrived from China, elicited enormous reaction of a hysterical nature. And we can foresee that the government is looking to respond to that particular scenario and to change its laws. And for us that are trying to advocate for refugee rights, we're very concerned about how that plays into a closing of the doors as far as refugees are concerned. Phillip Babich: Janet, when the discussion arises perhaps in the press by legislators, political leaders, about immigrants, and it's handled in the way that, for example, the Chinese immigrant situations is handled... how does that affect immigrants of other backgrounds, other nationalities or ethnicity's? Janet Dench: It affects all refugees in the first place because it affects public opinion and it affects how refugees, as they're going about their daily lives are treated by their colleagues, their schoolmates, or their neighbors. So it creates an unwelcoming environment for refugees. And refugees feel that they are viewed as being bogus and unwanted. And secondly, the politicians, the bureaucrats start thinking about "how could we change the policies in order to respond to the public pressure?" And one of the things that they have been doing, in the case of the Chinese, and we expect to see that reinforced, unfortunately, in legislative changes, the widespread use of long-term detention as a deterrent. Phillip Babich: Sunera, do you have anything to add to that? Sunera Thobani: Well yes, I do think that that's a real fear, the destruction of the rights that refugees currently have. And I think that Janet is quite right in pointing out that the Canadian government is really going to use the arrival of these migrants from China to really take away many of the rights that refugees currently have. And I think that this is a very important point in how immigration is being treated. It's really too...I think that government policy is really looking at organizing unequal rights based on the conditions upon which people are allowed entry into the country. And I think that the big battle of immigration is actually going to be fought in the area of citizenship, because by restricting the rights of people who can come into the country, so that fewer people can come in as permanent residents, who can subsequently make claim to Canadian citizenship... by restricting that group, what you then have is an increase in undocumented people who can claim no rights, or you have people who are allowed under restricted conditions for certain periods of time, temporary work permits, and they cannot access many of the rights of citizenship. So I really think that the attempt right now is to organize through controlling the unequal conditions of entry into the country, unequal levels of citizenship, and therefore what claims you can make upon the state, what claims you can make upon social programs. And I think that's a key feature right now. And that ties immigration policy very clearly to the whole restructuring of the welfare state in Canada, the whole restructuring of social programs. Phillip Babich: That's Sunera Thobani, professor of Women's Studies at Simon Frazer University in Vancouver, British Columbia. She's joined by Catherine Tactaquin, director of the National Network for Immigrant and Refugee Rights based in Oakland, California, and Janet Dench, executive director of the Canadian Council for Refugees in Montreal, Quebec. We'll have more of this discussion in a few moments. Stephanie Welch: You're listening to Making Contact, a production of the National Radio Project. If you'd like to get in touch with us, we'll be giving out our toll free number at the end of this broadcast. Phillip Babich: In many industrialized countries around the world, right-wing politicians are blaming immigrants for job losses. In Austria, for example, Jorg Haider, a Nazi sympathizer, and his Freedom Party became part of the Austrian government's ruling coalition in early 2000, largely on an anti-immigrant platform. I asked Sunera Thobani what's wrong with the right wing analysis and if similar trends are underway in Canada. Sunera Thobani: Well, what's wrong with the right wing analysis is that it takes attention away from the responsibility of the state, from the corporate sector, and really this whole phenomenon of downsizing and of destroying jobs in the economy. And so, immigrants become a very easy target, and they become blamed for this. And this is not very new. Throughout the history of Canada we've had the blaming of immigrants...blaming them for social problems, for economic problems. So, you know, this kind of scapegoating has a very old history, and it has been used quite effectively, actually, by politicians, which is why they continue to use it. We're seeing that similar phenomenon in Canada right now. I mean, the right wing, particularly through the reform party, and support for the reform party, which is the opposition party right now, has gained incredible support on the basis of immigrant bashing. So certainly we're seeing the right wing use this in Canada as we're seeing them used in Europe. I think the important point is that this kind of scapegoating of immigrants, even though ostensibly it's targeted toward new immigrants, you know, "we don't do it any more because they'll take more jobs away." This kind of scapegoating and treatment of new immigrants actually affects all people of color in Canada, because Canada continues to be defined as a Euro-Canadian society. Officially, it's defined as a bilingual, bicultural nation, which is basically English and French. And so all people of color, regardless of how long we've been here, how many generations we've been here, we continue to be defined as outsiders to this basically insider group, which is English and French. So I think as long as the nation in Canada is defined in this very, colonial race systems, people of color who've been here seven or eight generations still continue to be defined as outsiders, and therefore as immigrants. And so as we have the blaming or the closing off of immigration policy, to kind of restrict the entry of new immigrants, people of color who are citizens in this country, who have been here for many generations, get treated in the same way. And our outsider status becomes re-emphasized, and I think that's also what kind of underpins this right wing political mobilization. Phillip Babich: Sunera Thobani , you were the head of the National Action Committee on the Status of Women. And my counterparts in Canada, who helped organize this broadcast with AMARC, the World Association of Radio Broadcasters, tell me that when you were the head of that organization, I believed a member of Parliament accused you of being an illegal immigrant. I wonder if you could tell us about that story and what the implications of that are? Sunera Thobani: That's right. When I because the president, and let me put this in context: The National Action Committee is the largest women's group in Canada, and I was the first woman of color who was ever elected to this position. And as soon as the organization made the announcement that I was the next president, immediately, in fact the next day, a member of Parliament from the ruling party stood up in the house of Parliament and accused me of being an illegal immigrant. Then, of course, that sparked a huge backlash across the country. The point is that it was completely false, and, it was really based on my color. The first woman of color. And I think that provoked that kind of response. But I was really amazed at how much support he received, at how I was attacked personally. All kind of hate mail, really abusive phone calls. The organization I represented was under attack as well. But what was really interesting for me is, although some liberal white people saw how racist that was, the debate quickly turned in to not my immigration status and me being supposedly an illegal immigrant, but whether an immigrant woman could represent Canadian women. Whether an immigrant woman could understand the issues of Canadian women. So even though initially it was an overtly racist attack, through the media treatment of it, and this question of "can an immigrant woman represent Canadian women?" you know, that racism became acceptable. Phillip Babich: That's the voice of Sunera Thobani . She's joining us from Vancouver. Also with us is Janet Dench, she's joining us from Montreal. And here in the National Radio Project studio is Catherine Tactaquin. Catherine, you're with the National Network for Immigrant and Refugee Rights. I know you've track issues concerning racism, and I'm wondering if you can give us a picture of the level of racism, and how it connects to immigration issues? Catherine Tactaquin: Well, I think there's been growing concern around the country about this intersection of race and immigration. In fact, we just created a project to kind of encourage dialogues and discussion called "Bridge: Building a Race and Immigration Dialogue in the Global Era," because we think it's very much a product of globalization, restructuring of the world's economies, and both the political and economic pressures that have gone along with that, and are resulting in, you know, changed demographics in the U.S. And, from the right, kind of a redefining of questions of race, and especially imbued with this question of immigration, and across the country we're now finding new racial issues that are arising in the Southeast. And on the centuries-old traditions of slavery and the remnants of that, and now we have Southeast Asians in Georgia, and, you know, Haitians in Florida, Mexicans in South Carolina, and it's creating a new racial discussion, new racial tensions. And there are a lot of people very concerned with how to begin to look at that. In Iowa, Mexican workers in the meat packing industry have become a target of the INS, but also have raised concerns about changed demographics. It's very much a polarized question, and we think that over the next year and a half we're actually looking forward to engaging on this as part of the preparation for the UN's World Conference on Racism and Xenophobia, which will be held in South Africa in July 2001. And I think that will be a very important gathering, very controversial. I know the Western nations were not that warm to the idea of convening this conference, on these questions of race and immigration, but I think it will be a good opportunity for those of us in the United States to engage prior to that conference on these questions of race and immigration, and to be part of an international community that is also grappling with it. I think it was very import that the question of xenophobia has been given a level consistent with the question of racism, hopefully, and how this conference will deal with it. Because I think it certainly has become, as people have discussed it so far, one of the more polarizing questions not just in Canada and the United States, but certainly throughout Europe. And I think we in the United States have a great deal of responsibility to examine this question, and I hope those of us in the activist community and the civil rights community can really be a voice and how we can begin to address this. Janet Dench: Yes, I think there's many similarities between what's happening in Canada and what is happening in the United States, and we're grappling with similar issues. And we too are interested in preparation for the world conference against racism, and I think the link between xenophobia and racism is very important, because what we do see often is that racism takes the form of anti-immigrant or anti-refugee discourse. It's a way of packaging people's racist comments in a way that's not explicitly racist but that's very clear, and Sunera's account of what happened to her is an example of how that happens, of how people who have racist points of view target immigrants, refugees, illegal immigrants. And that is very much one of the main forms, in our experience, that racism is taking in Canada. Phillip Babich: Sunera, I'm wondering if you could pick up on some of those themes. What do you feel needs to be done to begin addressing immigration policy? How should immigration policy better reflect, the realities of migration, the economy, etc.? Sunera Thobani: Well, okay, I think certainly that anti-racist organizing coalition building is extremely important. And, for me, one of the groups that always gets left out of the discussion are aboriginal people. And in Canada, you know, the struggles of the aboriginal people for self-determination, for land rights, are very key. And I think that the presence of all known aboriginal peoples, impacts very directly on their struggles. So what I would like to see, and what I think is really necessary, is for the debate around immigration to really connect with, and include the experience of aboriginal people and what their perspectives are, and what they think should be done about immigration policies. So when we're talking about immigration and coalition building, I think that's really important to continue to remember that. And in terms of what is happening with the global economy, I think it's really important to realize that although we are living in this particular phase of globalization, the global economy has been integrated for the last 500 years. I mean, the very construction and creation of Canada reflected that first phase of globalization, which was European colonization. And so I think it's really important that we recognize that we have been globally integrated, our economies have been integrated, and you know, economies of the south actually underwrite the standard of living for people in the north. So to recognize that, and then to say, "What does this mean for immigration policy, when we benefit in such clear material terms from the labor and resources of other people across the globe? What right do we then have to say that they cannot come here?" And what gives us the right to do that, really, is imperialism, the right of imperialism. And I think that has to shape immigration policy of the future, if it is going to be just in an kind of way. Phillip Babich: Catherine Tactaquin, your thoughts on immigration policy? Catherine Tactaquin: Well, I think we really have to move towards protecting the rights of international labor mobility. At present, we don't. We allow mobility across borders of resources, capital, goods...that's evident in U.S.-Mexico relations, in the NAFTA agreement. We don't have protections for labor. And I think we really need to re-examine policies that allow for that right of labor mobility, for one. I think there's a step in the right direction that we need to pursue in the United States. The AFL-CIO, which is the kind of the official voice of organized labor in the U.S., most recently reversed an important immigration position. They are now opposing employer sanctions, which was the 1986 provision of law that outlawed the hiring of undocumented workers. They've reversed that position and are calling for general amnesty, full amnesty, for undocumented. And I think it's an important opportunity to re-open a very big page in immigration policy in the U.S., which has criminalized undocumented workers. Phillip Babich: Well, that's the voice of Catherine Tactaquin. She's the director of the National Network for Immigrant and Refugee Rights. Also joining us has been Janet Dench. She's the executive director of the Canadian Council for Refugees, in Montreal. And also joining us was Sunera Thobani. She is professor of Women's Studies at the Simon Frazer University. She is joining us from Vancouver. Thank you all for joining us on Making Contact. All: Thank you. Phillip Babich: That's it for this edition of Making Contact: a look at immigration and racism in Canada and the United States. Thanks for listening. This show was produced in collaboration with the World Association of Community Radio Broadcasters. Special thanks to Elvira Truglia, Sujata Dey, and Cynthia Sharp for production assistance. Laura Livoti is our managing director. Peggy Law, executive director. Associate producer, Stephanie Welch. Senior advisor, Norman Solomon. National producer, David Barsamian. Women's desk coordinator, Lisa Rudman. Prison desk coordinator, Eli Rosenblatt. Production assistant, Shereen Meraji. Archivist, Din Abdullah. And I'm your host and managing producer, Phillip Babich. If you want more information about the subject of this week's program, call the National Radio Project at 800-529-5736. Call that same phone number for tapes and transcripts. That's 800-529-5736. You can also go to our website at www.radioproject.org. 'Bye for now. |